Curse

-Lotus- · Aug 06, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

lol! That's right, DSlash doesn't use adrenaline.

no, no. they do. hes just pointing out that youve never played one as you dont understand how adrenaline works

ryu_okunato · Aug 06, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

that DSlash+Headbutt+Steelfang combination

isn't tat impossible to use since steelfang doesn't gain adrenaline from itself anymore thanks to the recharge?

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

no, no. they do. hes just pointing out that youve never played one as you dont understand how adrenaline works

Is somebody asking for more screenshots and videos? I love making screenshots and videos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryu_okunato

isn't tat impossible to use since steelfang doesn't gain adrenaline from itself anymore thanks to the recharge?

It still works for me sometimes, if I am patient enough to wait for it to recharge first before DSlashing.

But I agree it is more clunky after the nerf, sometimes I have it fully recharged, the monster died, and DSlash and Headbutt greyed out. Thus, more problem to SY! during the 15s FGJ downtime.

Paul Dawg · Aug 06, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

That's just wrong. SY does not bring you back to zero adrenaline.

Sounds like you've never actually played a DSlash build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Let me take the so-called godmode DSlash build as an example. Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again.

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

That's just wrong. SY does not bring you back to zero adrenaline.

What are you talking about? Why would it bring you back to zero adrenaline? I think you are confused regarding the build.

Arkantos · Aug 06, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

I wish I understood what you were talking about. As long as adrenal skills aren't being shut down, warriors can spam SY as often as necessary.

And paragons can be shut down too. No shouts = no energy.

Warriors can't spam SY as much as paragons can. Paragons are ranged, so they can target switch faster. If one of their attacks gets blocked, it's not a big deal. If a warriors dragon slash gets blocked, you'll be waiting awhile for SY to go back up.

It's very hard for a paragon to run out of energy, unless they're getting hit hard with constant energy denial. In PvE, there's very little energy denial.

ryu_okunato · Aug 06, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

It still works for me sometimes, if I am patient enough to wait for it to recharge first before DSlashing.

But I agree it is more clunky after the nerf, sometimes I have it fully recharged, the monster died, and DSlash and Headbutt greyed out. Thus, more problem to SY! during the 15s FGJ downtime.

i'm not talking about waiting for dragon slash, i'm talking about how steelfang used to get adrenaline from itself and now it doesn't(because u can't get adrenaline for a recharging skill)

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Arkantos is right. And lets not forget the 15s FGJ downtime, which Paragons can use Focused Anger to cover.

All I am saying is, it is much easier for a Paragon to keep up the SY! spam than it is for Warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryu_okunato

i'm not talking about waiting for dragon slash, i'm talking about how steelfang used to get adrenaline from itself and now it doesn't(because u can't get adrenaline for a recharging skill)

Agree, steelfang is not that useful anymore, but it still triggers often enough. I think the point of the nerf is to make it harder to keep a target knocked down consecutively outside of FGJ. Sometimes I even replace steelfang with another skill since it is not that useful anymore.

Teutonic Paladin · Aug 06, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

What are you talking about? Why would it bring you back to zero adrenaline? I think you are confused regarding the build.

I think you mistyped, or are actually an idiot. Unless "wait awhile" is equivalent to wait less than a second.

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

I think you mistyped, or are actually an idiot. Unless "wait awhile" is equivalent to wait less than a second.

How can it take less than a second when the attack speed of a sword already takes 1.33s to make a hit, without IAS on? Read your own posts before you flame.

No matter how you view it, it still breaks your attack chain to keep up SY spamming as well as a Paragon, if the monster runs, blocks, blinds, since it can take more time to switch to a further target when you melee compared to ranged. And we have gone OT on sab's thread.

Teutonic Paladin · Aug 06, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

I generally assume that people aren't idiots and are in an IAS virtually all the time.

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

I generally assume that people aren't idiots and are in an IAS virtually all the time.

And I assume that people aren't idiots to use IAS all the time but to use enraging charge before enaging a mob.

Seriously, if FGJ is down, you are not going to recharge Dslash in less than a second after SY anyway no matter how you try to justify it with IAS or not, so you still can't spam SY as much as the Paragons.

If FGJ is up, you still take 1 swing to activate DSlash and another swing for DSlash to hit, so effectively, it still takes more than a second even with IAS but that would be splitting hairs.

Teutonic Paladin · Aug 06, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

And I assume that people aren't idiots to use IAS all the time but to use enraging charge before enaging a mob.

Seriously, if FGJ is down, you are not going to recharge Dslash in less than a second after SY anyway no matter how you try to justify it with IAS or not, so you still can't spam SY as much as the Paragons.

If FGJ is up, you still take 1 swing to activate DSlash and another swing for DSlash to hit, so effectively, it still takes more than a second even with IAS.

Except with even a 3s SY you can Enraging -> Dragon Slash -> SY -> Flail -> Dragon Slash with no downtime. Everything you say is talking about when FGJ is down, but 30 seconds into the battle, if the majority of threats haven't already been eliminated, you're either being wiped or aren't doing enough damage.

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

Except with even a 3s SY you can Enraging -> Dragon Slash -> SY -> Flail -> Dragon Slash with no downtime. Everything you say is talking about when FGJ is down, but 30 seconds into the battle, if the majority of threats haven't already been eliminated, you're either being wiped or aren't doing enough damage.

Unfortunately, not every mob dies in 30s in HM, especially mobs with bosses and NM is not even worth talking about.

15s out of a recharge of 45s means one third of the time, you are without FGJ. FGJ downtime is the most obvious issue to talk about since without FGJ, your ability to spam SY is hampered, otherwise there is also the fact that you need to chase down monsters sometimes or block or blind. It still takes longer to switch target as a melee compared to ranged, in general.

Paul Dawg · Aug 06, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

YOU said that after doing SY, you can't do DSlash right away, but "have to wait for adrenaline to build up again." Here, I'll quote you again:

Quote:

Let me take the so-called godmode DSlash build as an example. Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again.

And that's simply wrong. Anyone who doesn't believe me can try it out for themselves. SY doesn't "break your DSlash chain," and you don't have to build up adrenaline after SY in order to use DSlash. Why would you want to persist in disagreeing about this? You're just being argumentative and won't admit that you were wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

What are you talking about? Why would it bring you back to zero adrenaline? I think you are confused regarding the build.

Fragile Feeling · Aug 06, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

OK, so getting back on topic about necros here, there are a few questions I have about the discord heroes:

1. I am a monk, should I be ursaning or healing? And if I do decide to heal, what skills should I replace the the last necro's healing skills with? (not the mm or the curser).

2. What are the best weapons to be using on the discord heroes? Right now all I have is "The Nightbringer" for the MM hero.

3. Which insignias should I be using on all 3 necros?

Thx
~Fragile

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

YOU said that after doing SY, you can't do DSlash right away, but "have to wait for adrenaline to build up again." Here, I'll quote you again:

And that is still true during FGJ downtime so maybe I should have qualify it so you will be happier and less argumentative? Can we get back on topic now or do you intend to persist on DSlash discussion that has nothing to do with Sab's build on her thread for the next few pages.

If you still want to continue to argue, you can PM me, I would hate to destroy Sab's stickied thread over this.

TheOrangeFalcon · Aug 06, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling

OK, so getting back on topic about necros here, there are a few questions I have about the discord heroes:

1. I am a monk, should I be ursaning or healing? And if I do decide to heal, what skills should I replace the the last necro's healing skills with? (not the mm or the curser).

2. What are the best weapons to be using on the discord heroes? Right now all I have is "The Nightbringer" for the MM hero.

3. Which insignias should I be using on all 3 necros?

Thx
~Fragile

After just reading this thread for so long I might as well contribute.

1. I don't run monk so I'm not sure, but you could probably run either based on what you want to do. If you go ursan, take heal/prot henchies and if you heal, drop the heal henchie for another damage henchie.

2. I use The Hourglass staff on all 3 of mine which work well enough. The Nightbringer should be fine on your MM and anyone who wont be using [PwK]. If you got someone with PwK i wouldnt really worry too much about it as they generally hold it constantly.

3.I use survivor insignias on all of em, with a bloodstained on the MM. You can go without the bloodstained if you want, im just kinda impatient and it helps when enemies have corpse skills.

Fragile Feeling · Aug 06, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Ok, on another hero healer I have a Droknar's Restoration Staff, could I switch that over to the healer? or should I get something completely different?

EDIT: and Im also wondering this: why no radiant insignias?

EDIT AGAIN: Here are the builds that I am going to use:

[Discord Curses;OAhkUoG4BGqTMzOgIKD7uhp0kaD]
[Discord MM;OANEUshd95EzqCoB8QV1oVPCIA]
[Discord Healer;OAhkUkGYoIiUMjaQVVC4wk004UyF]

So what do you guys think? don't mind the attribute spread on the healer because my olias is only lvl 15, but anyone have any suggestions?

TheOrangeFalcon · Aug 06, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling

Ok, on another hero healer I have a Droknar's Restoration Staff, could I switch that over to the healer? or should I get something completely different?

EDIT: and Im also wondering this: why no radiant insignias?

You don't benefit from the enchanting mod on the Droks Resto Staff, so swapping it could be useful. An Alem's Remedy or Bogroot Staff should work fine if you wanna look at greens.

You don't need radiants because of that wonderful thing called Soul Reaping.